TRANSCRIPT
RADIO BROADCAST OF AN Interview BY TOM SLATER, WOR RADIO,
with project diana team members, JANUARY 26, 1946
Recorded introduction by King Stodola
This tape contains a transcription of a mutual broadcasting system interview by newsman Tom Slater of some of the group at Evans Signal Laboratory who were responsible for the successful moon radar experiment conducted there in 1946. The experiment utilized an assortment of equipment gathered together to demonstrate the possibility of space communication and radar. Equipment included parts of a Signal Corps SCR-270 radar and other parts from an experimental radar equipment made for the Signal Corps by Major Armstrong. Along with these was substantial redesign and modification by the laboratory together with considerable additional processing and control equipment, especially designed and fabricated by the lab for the purpose. These successful results were obtained on January 10, 1946.
The first portion of the transcription is from an off-the-air recording of the program as broadcast by station WOR in January 27, 1946. The second portion, which includes actual tones of the echo returns from the moon, is of much higher quality and was obtained from a studio transcription of that portion of the program supplied directly by Mutual Broadcasting System. This experiment was successfully completed
The actual broadcast
Slater: In just a few minutes, news crew hosts a broadcast for the first time in history, the sound made by this pulse echo as it returns to the Earth from its round trip to the Moon. Now first, it’s my pleasure to introduce Colonel Dick A. Conrad, the commanding officer of the Signal Corps Engineering Laboratories at Bradley, D.C., Jersey. Colonel Conrad.
Conrad: During the war, a large part of the work of our laboratories consisted of production engineering, that is, expediting the production of communication equipment. Now that the war is over, we can again concentrate on research and development activities. VJ Day was not a signal for Electron so far as we were concerned, but rather it was a shot in the arm. It meant that we again had time to think and time to devote to research and scientific advances. We feel, and I know you will all agree, that our country must continue to lead the field. There must be no slowdown in thinking. The group of engineers who accomplish this job are characteristic of many groups in our laboratories who think the job out and then have the perfect words to carry through. Great credit is due them. I would now like to introduce Colonel John B. Witt, who as the former director of Evans Signal Laboratory, had general supervision of this project. He will give you some of the details. Colonel B. Witt.
DeWitt: Thank you, Colonel Conrad.
Slater: Well, Colonel DeWitt, is there any particular thing you want to say about tonight’s experiment?
DeWitt: I just want to emphasize that this is only an attempt to receive echoes from the moon. What we are doing is so new that many conditions could prevent our success tonight.
Slater: Even though you have been successful before?
DeWitt: Yes, on many occasions. In fact, only today when the newsreel men and photographers were here, we received strong echoes from the moon.
Slater: Well, have you spent most of your life in the Army, Colonel?
DeWitt: No, I haven’t. In fact, I was in your business as a radio engineer in 1963 before entering the Army.
Slater: Well, when did you start working on this project?
DeWitt: As a matter of fact, I’ve been thinking of doing this since May of 1940 when I first made the science calculations working toward this end.
Slater: Well, what success did you have at that time?
DeWitt: I was trying the experiment on my own, but I did not have the advantage of the techniques developed during the war for radar. Therefore, I failed.
Slater: And how long have you been at work on this here at the laboratory?
DeWitt: Well, as Colonel Conrad told you, we have been studying the propagation of radio waves through the Earth’s atmosphere all during the war. Since VJ day, it has been possible to concentrate on this moon investigation.
Slater: Colonel, what is this sound that we hear in the background:t?
DeWitt: Well, that’s the sound of the transmitter warming up and the relay. Each time the relay makes contact, a powerful high-frequency energy is sent to the moon. That’s every three seconds.
Slater: Well, how will this discovery affect the men on the street, ordinary guys?
DeWitt: Not very much, not very much. A radio wave, and we can therefore say that communication with such spaceships will be possible and their flight controlled from Earth.
Slater: Colonel, could you tell us something about the men who work with you on this study?
DeWitt: Gladly. In fact, I’ll introduce them to you now. First is Mr. E.K. Stodola.
Slater: Hello, Mr. Stodola. Where are you from, sir?
Stodola: Well, I am from where my home happens to be at the moment. However, I’ve lived in Washington, New York, and Boston.
Slater: Well, what was your business before the war?
Stodola: Well, I’ve been a radio engineer ever since obtaining my degree from Cooper Union in New York in 1936.
Slater: Well, what was your particular assignment on this project?
Stodola: Well, I was the Division chief of a research group at the General Engineering Branch here at our laboratory.
Slater: Mr. Stodola, just what is radar?
Stodola: Well, very briefly, radar is what we use to locate distant objects. A relatively short pulse of radio energy is transmitted in the direction of the object we wish to locate. It is scattered in every direction by this object, with a very small portion returning to the receiver, which is located near our transmitter. The time required for the signal to make the round trip gives us the measure of the distance, since we know just how fast radio waves travel. Our system here is basically similar to regular radar systems, except that we have changed all of our constants greatly in order to be able to locate a large and distant object like the moon.
Slater: To a guy like me, that’s very complicated. Thank you, Mr. Stodola.
DeWitt: Next, I’d like you to meet Dr. Harold Webb.
Slater: How do you do, Dr. Webb? Where are you from, sir?
Webb: I’m a former teacher of physics and math at West Liberty State College down in West Virginia.
Slater: Well, I understand you and Mr. Kaufman were the two men who first saw the signals and heard the echoes from the moon.
Webb: That’s right. It happened around noon on January 10th.
Slater: What actually did happen?
Webb: Herbert Kaufman, one of my partners in this work, was over at the receiver. He said, say, did you hear that beat? I didn’t at first, but almost immediately I too began to hear the audible notes characteristic of the moon echo.
Slater: Weren’t you excited?
Webb: Yes, we certainly were.
Slater: What did you do about it?
Webb: We tried to keep it quiet.
Slater: You make contact with the moon by radar, but you want to keep it quiet. Why?
Webb: Well, I think it would be good to have Mr. Kaufman answer that.
Slater: All right. Mr. Kaufman?
Kaufmann: We wanted to be sure. We’ve been working on the project for several months and believed in the likelihood of its success, but we would surely have felt disappointed if we were wrong.
Slater: Yeah, because there it was all of a sudden.
Kaufmann: Right, and we wanted verification.
Slater: And now the whole world knows about it.
Kaufmann: Well, I just hope it works for your broadcast.
Slater: Yeah, so do we. We’ll be very proud to transmit this echo around the world for the first time in history. We’ve got our fingers crossed for you. Well, it took a lot of experience to do this kind of work, didn’t it?
DeWitt: Pardon me, Mr. Slater. One of our men had no previous radio training, although it certainly had no effect on his success as an engineer. Here is Jack Moffinson. Tell them something about yourself, Jack. Would you please?
Mofenson: Though radio was not my business prior to the war, I have studied engineering and obtained a degree at the City College of New York. In April 1942 and 42, I came to work for the Signal Corps as a physicist.
Slater: Well, Jack, why is this study called the Diana Project?
Mofenson: Well, we named it that because Diana was the goddess of the moon.
Slater: Ah, and what was your job on the Diana Project?
Mofenson: My job was to design the visual indicators and the circuits necessary to control the time intervals between our transmitted pulses. These indicators, which are cathode ray tubes, are needed to determine the elapsed time between our transmission and the return echo.
Slater: Well, thank you, Jack. Colonel DeWitt, how far away is the moon?
DeWitt: The moon is at an average distance of about 240,000 miles from the Earth. There are times when it is closer and other times when it is farther away.
Slater: Well, what proof do you have that this echo you receive is actually from the moon?
DeWitt: The speed of light is 186,400 miles per second. The distance from the Earth to the moon and back again being approximately 480,000 miles, simple arithmetic tells us that the elapsed time should be about 2.5 seconds. Our echo from the moon came back in that time.
Slater: Well, how long does it take to get a response?
DeWitt: 2.5 seconds for the 480,000 mile round trip for the radar pulse.
Slater: Well, is the sound of the echo that we hope to get right soon, is that sound of the echo from the moon a beautiful one?
DeWitt: Well, not particularly, although to us it certainly was when we first heard it. In fact, it’s not very dramatic and it’s not very loud. Unless you’re listening closely, you can’t hear it.
Slater: Well, we’re now getting very close to the time of night when your figures tell us the moon will rise.
DeWitt: Yes, let’s pause for a minute and look at the oscilloscope screen to see if there are any indications of an echo.
Slater: Now, how’s it look, Colonel?
DeWitt: Well, not too good at the moment. All right, we’re just waiting. Watch now. Now listen. Oh, there it is. That’s the echo. Strong echo that time. That one was weak. There’s a strong echo. There’s the pulse. Weak echo. Pulse again. Fairly good echo. There’s the pulse. Echo. Pulse again. The echo missed that time. There’s the echo.
Slater: There, ladies and gentlemen, was the first broadcast of an echo from the moon. Thank you, Colonel Conrad, Colonel DeWitt, and your staff. Mutual has broadcast from the Evans Laboratories at Belmar, New Jersey, the scene of the work of the United States Army Signal Corps in its successful attempt to contact the moon by radar. And there it is, ladies and gentlemen, the first on-the-spot transcribed report of an experiment in which contact with the moon was successfully established by means of radar. We bring you now the program originally scheduled.
Recorded Afterword by King Stodola
This tape was made from 78 RPM acetate-coated discs which were widely used for transcription purposes at the time of the recording. The break in the first portion of the recording, which omits some of Colonel DeWitt’s observations, occurred because of the time required to change discs during the transcription. And the recording was not recorded until the late 1970s. The recording was made in the late 1970s.
This tape contains a transcription of a mutual broadcasting system interview by newsman Tom Slater of some of the group at Evans Signal Laboratory who were responsible for the successful moon radar experiment conducted there in 1946. The experiment utilized an assortment of equipment gathered together to demonstrate the possibility of space communication and radar. Equipment included parts of a Signal Corps SCR-270 radar and other parts from an experimental radar equipment made for the Signal Corps by Major Armstrong. Along with these was substantial redesign and modification by the laboratory together with considerable additional processing and control equipment, especially designed and fabricated by the lab for the purpose. These successful results were obtained on January 10, 1946.
The first portion of the transcription is from an off-the-air recording of the program as broadcast by station WOR in January 27, 1946. The second portion, which includes actual tones of the echo returns from the moon, is of much higher quality and was obtained from a studio transcription of that portion of the program supplied directly by Mutual Broadcasting System. This experiment was successfully completed
The actual broadcast
Slater: In just a few minutes, news crew hosts a broadcast for the first time in history, the sound made by this pulse echo as it returns to the Earth from its round trip to the Moon. Now first, it’s my pleasure to introduce Colonel Dick A. Conrad, the commanding officer of the Signal Corps Engineering Laboratories at Bradley, D.C., Jersey. Colonel Conrad.
Conrad: During the war, a large part of the work of our laboratories consisted of production engineering, that is, expediting the production of communication equipment. Now that the war is over, we can again concentrate on research and development activities. VJ Day was not a signal for Electron so far as we were concerned, but rather it was a shot in the arm. It meant that we again had time to think and time to devote to research and scientific advances. We feel, and I know you will all agree, that our country must continue to lead the field. There must be no slowdown in thinking. The group of engineers who accomplish this job are characteristic of many groups in our laboratories who think the job out and then have the perfect words to carry through. Great credit is due them. I would now like to introduce Colonel John B. Witt, who as the former director of Evans Signal Laboratory, had general supervision of this project. He will give you some of the details. Colonel B. Witt.
DeWitt: Thank you, Colonel Conrad.
Slater: Well, Colonel DeWitt, is there any particular thing you want to say about tonight’s experiment?
DeWitt: I just want to emphasize that this is only an attempt to receive echoes from the moon. What we are doing is so new that many conditions could prevent our success tonight.
Slater: Even though you have been successful before?
DeWitt: Yes, on many occasions. In fact, only today when the newsreel men and photographers were here, we received strong echoes from the moon.
Slater: Well, have you spent most of your life in the Army, Colonel?
DeWitt: No, I haven’t. In fact, I was in your business as a radio engineer in 1963 before entering the Army.
Slater: Well, when did you start working on this project?
DeWitt: As a matter of fact, I’ve been thinking of doing this since May of 1940 when I first made the science calculations working toward this end.
Slater: Well, what success did you have at that time?
DeWitt: I was trying the experiment on my own, but I did not have the advantage of the techniques developed during the war for radar. Therefore, I failed.
Slater: And how long have you been at work on this here at the laboratory?
DeWitt: Well, as Colonel Conrad told you, we have been studying the propagation of radio waves through the Earth’s atmosphere all during the war. Since VJ day, it has been possible to concentrate on this moon investigation.
Slater: Colonel, what is this sound that we hear in the background:t?
DeWitt: Well, that’s the sound of the transmitter warming up and the relay. Each time the relay makes contact, a powerful high-frequency energy is sent to the moon. That’s every three seconds.
Slater: Well, how will this discovery affect the men on the street, ordinary guys?
DeWitt: Not very much, not very much. A radio wave, and we can therefore say that communication with such spaceships will be possible and their flight controlled from Earth.
Slater: Colonel, could you tell us something about the men who work with you on this study?
DeWitt: Gladly. In fact, I’ll introduce them to you now. First is Mr. E.K. Stodola.
Slater: Hello, Mr. Stodola. Where are you from, sir?
Stodola: Well, I am from where my home happens to be at the moment. However, I’ve lived in Washington, New York, and Boston.
Slater: Well, what was your business before the war?
Stodola: Well, I’ve been a radio engineer ever since obtaining my degree from Cooper Union in New York in 1936.
Slater: Well, what was your particular assignment on this project?
Stodola: Well, I was the Division chief of a research group at the General Engineering Branch here at our laboratory.
Slater: Mr. Stodola, just what is radar?
Stodola: Well, very briefly, radar is what we use to locate distant objects. A relatively short pulse of radio energy is transmitted in the direction of the object we wish to locate. It is scattered in every direction by this object, with a very small portion returning to the receiver, which is located near our transmitter. The time required for the signal to make the round trip gives us the measure of the distance, since we know just how fast radio waves travel. Our system here is basically similar to regular radar systems, except that we have changed all of our constants greatly in order to be able to locate a large and distant object like the moon.
Slater: To a guy like me, that’s very complicated. Thank you, Mr. Stodola.
DeWitt: Next, I’d like you to meet Dr. Harold Webb.
Slater: How do you do, Dr. Webb? Where are you from, sir?
Webb: I’m a former teacher of physics and math at West Liberty State College down in West Virginia.
Slater: Well, I understand you and Mr. Kaufman were the two men who first saw the signals and heard the echoes from the moon.
Webb: That’s right. It happened around noon on January 10th.
Slater: What actually did happen?
Webb: Herbert Kaufman, one of my partners in this work, was over at the receiver. He said, say, did you hear that beat? I didn’t at first, but almost immediately I too began to hear the audible notes characteristic of the moon echo.
Slater: Weren’t you excited?
Webb: Yes, we certainly were.
Slater: What did you do about it?
Webb: We tried to keep it quiet.
Slater: You make contact with the moon by radar, but you want to keep it quiet. Why?
Webb: Well, I think it would be good to have Mr. Kaufman answer that.
Slater: All right. Mr. Kaufman?
Kaufmann: We wanted to be sure. We’ve been working on the project for several months and believed in the likelihood of its success, but we would surely have felt disappointed if we were wrong.
Slater: Yeah, because there it was all of a sudden.
Kaufmann: Right, and we wanted verification.
Slater: And now the whole world knows about it.
Kaufmann: Well, I just hope it works for your broadcast.
Slater: Yeah, so do we. We’ll be very proud to transmit this echo around the world for the first time in history. We’ve got our fingers crossed for you. Well, it took a lot of experience to do this kind of work, didn’t it?
DeWitt: Pardon me, Mr. Slater. One of our men had no previous radio training, although it certainly had no effect on his success as an engineer. Here is Jack Moffinson. Tell them something about yourself, Jack. Would you please?
Mofenson: Though radio was not my business prior to the war, I have studied engineering and obtained a degree at the City College of New York. In April 1942 and 42, I came to work for the Signal Corps as a physicist.
Slater: Well, Jack, why is this study called the Diana Project?
Mofenson: Well, we named it that because Diana was the goddess of the moon.
Slater: Ah, and what was your job on the Diana Project?
Mofenson: My job was to design the visual indicators and the circuits necessary to control the time intervals between our transmitted pulses. These indicators, which are cathode ray tubes, are needed to determine the elapsed time between our transmission and the return echo.
Slater: Well, thank you, Jack. Colonel DeWitt, how far away is the moon?
DeWitt: The moon is at an average distance of about 240,000 miles from the Earth. There are times when it is closer and other times when it is farther away.
Slater: Well, what proof do you have that this echo you receive is actually from the moon?
DeWitt: The speed of light is 186,400 miles per second. The distance from the Earth to the moon and back again being approximately 480,000 miles, simple arithmetic tells us that the elapsed time should be about 2.5 seconds. Our echo from the moon came back in that time.
Slater: Well, how long does it take to get a response?
DeWitt: 2.5 seconds for the 480,000 mile round trip for the radar pulse.
Slater: Well, is the sound of the echo that we hope to get right soon, is that sound of the echo from the moon a beautiful one?
DeWitt: Well, not particularly, although to us it certainly was when we first heard it. In fact, it’s not very dramatic and it’s not very loud. Unless you’re listening closely, you can’t hear it.
Slater: Well, we’re now getting very close to the time of night when your figures tell us the moon will rise.
DeWitt: Yes, let’s pause for a minute and look at the oscilloscope screen to see if there are any indications of an echo.
Slater: Now, how’s it look, Colonel?
DeWitt: Well, not too good at the moment. All right, we’re just waiting. Watch now. Now listen. Oh, there it is. That’s the echo. Strong echo that time. That one was weak. There’s a strong echo. There’s the pulse. Weak echo. Pulse again. Fairly good echo. There’s the pulse. Echo. Pulse again. The echo missed that time. There’s the echo.
Slater: There, ladies and gentlemen, was the first broadcast of an echo from the moon. Thank you, Colonel Conrad, Colonel DeWitt, and your staff. Mutual has broadcast from the Evans Laboratories at Belmar, New Jersey, the scene of the work of the United States Army Signal Corps in its successful attempt to contact the moon by radar. And there it is, ladies and gentlemen, the first on-the-spot transcribed report of an experiment in which contact with the moon was successfully established by means of radar. We bring you now the program originally scheduled.
Recorded Afterword by King Stodola
This tape was made from 78 RPM acetate-coated discs which were widely used for transcription purposes at the time of the recording. The break in the first portion of the recording, which omits some of Colonel DeWitt’s observations, occurred because of the time required to change discs during the transcription. And the recording was not recorded until the late 1970s. The recording was made in the late 1970s.